The ESP Bill of Rights

Transcript

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Saúl : Our ESPs are professionals who have dedicated their lives and their careers to helping students, and they are paid with public tax dollars. And one job should be enough to support your family.

Natieka : Hello, and welcome to School Me, the National Education Association's podcast dedicated to helping educators thrive at every stage of their careers. I'm your host, Natieka Samuels.

Despite their important roles in our schools, many education [00:00:30] support professionals, or ESPs, have to take on more than one job to make ends meet. More than one-third of ESPs earn less than $25,000 a year and on average, they are making below a living wage in all 50 states. Across the country, states are working to secure better pay, working conditions and more for their ESPs because one job should be enough.

Today, Saúl Ramos, a Senior Policy and Program Specialist in NEA's ESP Quality Department, [00:01:00] and 2017 Education Support Professional of the Year, is our guest. Together, we're discussing how NEA members, staff, and leaders are collaborating on a campaign to create an ESP Bill of Rights in each state, an effort to increase ESP visibility, rights, and respect, and how your state can join in too. Thank you for joining us today, Saúl.

Saúl : Thank you, my pleasure.

Natieka : So let's start with a little bit about you, your career in education and your current position at NEA.

Saúl : [00:01:30] So, I was actually an education support professional for about 23 years in Worcester, Massachusetts. I was a one-on-one paraeducator and braillist, so my main job was to work with visually impaired students. I adapted their classwork into either large print or braille, reinforced the braille teachings, and then the main part was to make sure that they learned how to be independent, whether it's in the classroom, the school setting, or even outdoors, through their mobility [00:02:00] training. So I did that for about 23 years, it was fantastic. It started out as a kind of two-year job so I can finish college and everything and I just fell in love with it and ended up doing it for almost 23 years.

And then last June, I actually applied for a position at the National Education Association, and I was successfully hired and am now working on a two-year term. So I took a leave of absence from the Worcester Public Schools, [00:02:30] but I was hired as a Senior Program and Policy Specialist to work in the Education Support Professional Quality department, sometimes better known as ESPQ, where I am helping to develop some resources, work on Bill of Rights for ESPs, and also an institute to help locals and states retain, engage and help develop leadership skills for our ESP members.

Natieka : And you also were the 2017 [00:03:00] NEA ESP of the year. So, how did that affect your work and your relationship with NEA?

Saúl : That was actually the, I want to say, the biggest honor of my life and also just a complete surprise, just because all the work that I've ever done, and I think this applies to all ESPs, we do it because we love what we do. We love working with our students and making sure that we're helping our students be completely successful, whether it's academic or just personal or life [00:03:30] or social skills.

And first of all, being nominated at my state, which is how I received the first award, was just incredible, but at the same time, I felt a little bit, how can I say it? A little bit guilty, because as an ESP, I want to share this with everyone, and I'm always considering, there's so many other ESPs that do so many amazing things that it kind of sometimes feel a little bit like, oh my God, why me? And then in 2017, I was nominated for the national one and [00:04:00] I was selected.

But one of the great things that then President Lily Eskelsen García said to help me better navigate through that was, it's not a contest. This was just recognizing an example of what our ESP members do. So that really helped me navigate through it and it just also opened a lot of more doors. Not only did I travel to several states to other ESP conferences and engagements, but I was able to see the [00:04:30] functions within the NEA. I was able to attend to the board meeting a couple of times to speak and just listen, and it just really opened my eyes to the day-to-day routine and the things that happen within NEA and just made me want to gravitate towards more where I did end up doing one term as an ESP at large on the NEA Board of Directors.

Natieka : So, let's set the stage a little bit. As ESP of the year, I'm sure you were talking about traveling [00:05:00] and getting to meet a lot of other ESPs across the country, but even right now, I'm sure there's a lot of the same issues that are going on between then and now, but since that was pre-pandemic, that probably seems like a lifetime ago, in terms of how we see the world. But what are some of the biggest issues that ESPs are facing right now, and why is it so important for us to look out for the interests of ESPs, specifically within the school community?

Saúl : [00:05:30] Things have, I believe, changed a little bit since the pandemic, but the issues remain the same, I feel like. And when I think about the top issues, I want to say four really come to mind, and the first one is, I would say respect. Our ESP members don't always necessarily feel seen. They don't feel heard, and they don't feel included or valued when it comes to either district wide, anything that has to do within the schools, and sometimes even within our unions. [00:06:00] A lot of times our ESP members don't have the time because they're working second, third, fourth jobs just to make ends meet. So to feel seen, to feel heard, to feel included is something that they need to be valued in. And also just feel like they're part of the process, whether it's either decision making within the district or even within our associations, whether it be at the local, state or national level.

And then I also think about wages. Our ESPs, they make at least $ [00:06:30] 10,000 under a livable wage in every single state in the United States.

Natieka : Wow.

Saúl : And when you think about that, our national ESP data book, when it came to that, they came out with some numbers and some other information, and it comes out that ESPs, like I said, earn an average of at least $10,000 below the living wage in every state, but one third of K through 12 ESPs working full-time, make less than $25,000 a year. [00:07:00] So that's another big issue.

And then when we also think about it, when we look at statistics, 49% of our ESP members are the head of the household. So imagine not being able to make a living wage and then depending if you're single, if you have a spouse, if you have children, if you have someone you take care of, that really comes into play and it's really hard for our ESP members.

The third thing is the safety on the job. A lot of our ESPs, if not all or most, work with some of our most vulnerable students. [00:07:30] And we love our job, we love what we do, but along with it sometimes comes students not by their fault, but depending on what's going on in their life and their conditions, they kick, they punch, they pull hair, and a lot of times our ESPs get hurt on the job, whether it's either protecting that child from hurting themselves or hurting other students, other staff members, or even just protecting yourself.

And then the last thing I would say is professional supports. So ESPs, [00:08:00] as we know, have very important careers, in they often spend, like myself, I used to do one-on-one time with students. And a lot of times it's more than other educators, whether it's the teachers or the specialists do, and they want and need relevant paid professional support so they can help students succeed both in and out of school because again, a lot of the things that we do is not just educational anymore. It also extends to social skills, life skills, [00:08:30] and anything that comes in between.

Natieka : And so as a part of working to change a lot of this, lately there's been a lot of talk about the NEA ESP Bill of Rights. So, can you introduce us to what the NEA ESP Bill of Rights is?

Saúl : So the NEA ESP Bill of Rights was created by the ESP Careers Committee, which is on the NEA Board of Directors. Usually they have two to three [00:09:00] charges every year, but this year, one of the charges was to create a National ESP Bill of Rights. So the NEA ESP Bill of Rights, it's basically a framework for NEA states and local affiliates to build their own campaign. We created it kind of as a guide, so locals and states can take it back, look at it, and then take what we've done, what we've learned, and create their own within their local or state. So it's a statement of our support for the [00:09:30] most important issues identified by our ESP members.

It's also an organizing tool, because a lot of locals or states, everywhere it's different, in some places they can't bargain for their contracts or even just exclusively for ESP contracts. So it's an organizing tool and we want ESPs to see themselves in our union and the ESP Bill of Rights, and it's a vehicle to talk to potential members as well, about what our work is focused on. And it's also a roadmap [00:10:00] for our work here at NEA. We are using the Bill of Rights to guide us in building supports and policies on issues that matter most to our members.

Natieka : And how did the idea for something like the Bill of Rights come along?

Saúl : So the Bill of Rights first were started in Massachusetts, and that's where I'm from, and it's just so amazing the things that have happened, but it started in Massachusetts. There was a need, and the ESP committee on the statewide reached out to the board [00:10:30] of directors and the leadership and said, we need a bill of rights and it was created, and it's done a lot.

So then the state of Maryland saw it and they connected and they said, you know what? We want to create our bill of rights as well. They've implemented it and created it, their own as well. And then Illinois created what they call a respect campaign. So every state and every local sometimes is different, and sometimes the wording really matters. So ESP Bill of Rights could work in some places, but in other places they prefer to call [00:11:00] it a RESPECT campaign. And the great thing about that is that we usually say it's respect because you can't spell respect without ESP in it, that's just one of our taglines that we use as well.

But all of this came because our NEA president, Becky Pringle, visited Illinois and saw what the ESPs were doing and the success of the RESPECT campaign. So when she came back, she made it as part of the charge of the ESP Careers [00:11:30] Committee, and she's like, I love everything that's happening in Illinois, I've seen what's happening in Massachusetts and Maryland, and we need to bring this to all 50 states, all locals, and make sure that they know what's going on and how they can utilize it themselves to be able to be as successful as these three states.

So the most important part about a bill of rights is not just to give it to our committee or a group of people and have them create it. It takes one-on-one conversations, it takes surveys, [00:12:00] it takes getting information from our ESP members to find out exactly what they want and what the needs are for an ESP Bill of Rights. So what the ESP Careers Committee did was they send out a national survey, and once they got all the responses back, they went through them. We listed the top 10 priorities, brought it back, coded it, made sure all the issues were included, and they came out with 10 items within that. And that's how it began, with member input.

And [00:12:30] I think the most important thing again, is the connection with our ESP members. And I say that because a lot of times our ESPs constantly hear, you deserve a living wage, you deserve respect, you deserve this, but to actually go to an ESP member, have a conversation, take their feedback, bring it back, create something out of what they said, and then bring it back to them and say, we heard you, we see you, we respect [00:13:00] you, and we want to honor you, and here's a document based on what you told us your needs are. So now it's like they have a document where they can not just share it with their colleagues, but also with the community, with elected officials, with everyone, to make sure that they understand not only what they do, but what their needs are to be able to be successful.

Natieka : And so what are the issues that are addressed through the Bill of Rights then?

Saúl : Like I said, we [00:13:30] have 10 buckets. We'll call them buckets, it's just our way of saying it, but here's a breakdown of them. So we have in no specific order, fair compensation and ESPs should not have to work multiple jobs to maintain financial independence. We have recognition and respect, ESPs, they play a vital role on the education team and in students' lives. Third one is safe and healthy work environment that is free of violence, including physical, verbal [00:14:00] and emotional abuse, and free of exposure to hazardous materials. We also want to make sure our ESPs have affordable healthcare. Each ESP should have access to affordable healthcare. ESPs deserve a paid leave, including personal days, sick days, parent or caregiver leave, and access to the family and medical leave FMLA benefits.

We also have professional learning and career advancement. ESPs really deserve a high quality [00:14:30] job-related professional learning and accessible opportunities for career advancement. We also have workload and staffing. ESPs have the right to a workload that allows them to excel in their assigned positions. We also included retirement, which a lot of our ESPs unfortunately, don't retirement or it is so low that they have to continue working. And in some states it's like they can only get their retirement [00:15:00] but not able to get social security as well.

And then we talked about privatization, which ESP should be free of the threats of privatization that risks the stability of school communities, silence the voice of employees, and further undermine the value of the services they provide in their jobs. And then finally, and not least, but the right to bargain. ESPs deserve a strong voice in their workplace, that includes the right to join their union and advocate for the rights and protections that they [00:15:30] deserve.

Natieka : Thanks for listening to School Me, and a quick thank you to all of the NEA members listening. If you're not an NEA member yet, visit NEA.org/whyjoin, to learn more about member benefits. So I've heard that the tagline for this campaign, because we love a tagline, is that one job should be enough. I even have a T-shirt with that on it.

Saúl : Love it.

Natieka : How did that tagline get chosen?

Saúl : It's a tagline that's been used in several states and in other [00:16:00] places, but it just perfectly fits our ESP members. Like I said earlier, there's not one state in the United States where an ESP makes a living wage right now. And our ESP members, many earn poverty level wages, many work multiple jobs just to make ends meet. Many are scheduled, so they are just a few minutes shy of earning benefits.

We just learned in some places where an ESP may have two ESP jobs that they might do the [00:16:30] bus in the morning and then they'd go into the school and they're either a paraeducator, custodian or even work in the food service, and then they drive the bus in the afternoon. But the districts, what they're doing is they're saying, well, these are two separate jobs, so we're going to pay you two different checks and it's not enough hours. That means you don't qualify for health insurance.

Natieka : Even if it adds up between the two jobs?

Saúl : Even if it adds up.

Natieka : Wow.

Saúl : They consider it two different positions and as two different people. And that there's strategic in such [00:17:00] an awful way to do things like that.

And then some ESPs also report owing the district money at the end of the month because their wages don't cover their share of health costs. Depending if you're a single person or if you're a household and you are the person who has the health insurance and you have children or a spouse that need it, sometimes people end up owing money by the end of the day. Too many of our ESPs have to rely on public assistance just to make ends meet and feed their families.

I have to say, I was in that position myself. I was in ESP [00:17:30] for several years, and I actually brought a family to apply for fuel assistance in Massachusetts, and I remember going in and they needed someone to help translate, they really felt comfortable with me translating for them in Spanish. So I went and I remember they were applying, and the lady who was there said to me, "Would you like to apply as well?" And I said, "I don't think I qualify." And she said, "Well, what do you do?" And I said, "I'm a paraeducator in the Worcester public schools." And she's like, "Oh, you would qualify." I was like, What do you mean?" And she's like, "Hold on." She pulled out a sheet she had [00:18:00] inside her desk and showed us, she's like, "Here's your list of your pay for your paraeducators, and regardless of even if you're on the top step, you qualify." I'm like, "As a single person, does that also?" She's like, absolutely.

So I applied and I said, sure, let me try it. I received $900 taken off my fuel assistance bill, and it was just such an eye-opening experience where I was like, this is crazy. Here we are working full-time to educate the students of the city, and [00:18:30] we still qualify for this. Our ESPs are professionals who have dedicated their lives and their careers to helping students, and they are paid with public tax dollars, and one job should be enough to support your family.

Natieka : Absolutely, and so how, if at all, does the Bill of Rights address things like privatization? Because I know that that has been a really big issue in the ESP world, in terms of job security and just making sure that everyone's paid fairly. So, is privatization at all [00:19:00] a part of this or is it sort of tangentially addressed?

Saúl : It is a big issue, and I think regardless, it happens in all 50 states. What we're seeing is that in our fight back is that when we talk about privatization, that means first of all, you have people or educators that are not stable in our students' lives, and that's what our students need. They need people with experience and not to take away from other people because people do need jobs, obviously, but when it comes to education, especially with ESPs who are working directly with our most vulnerable [00:19:30] of students, you need people who have the experience, who have the dedication. And the locals in the districts, this is what they're doing. They're going after privatization, trying to intimidate first of all, but then also take away those jobs because they don't have to worry then about paying insurance, paying all these other things, but they're doing a thing to better their district, but they're actually taking away from our students, our students who have these great connections with our education support professionals, whether it's a bus driver, whether it's a custodian, a paraeducator, [00:20:00] food service, IT techs, anything like that, they're really there to connect with the students so they know they have someone who's there constantly for them, and it's a stable situation.

Natieka : So the campaign is relatively new, but I know that there are a couple of places that have actually taken this and run with it. So, how many states and locals are getting involved in this campaign already?

Saúl : Right now, since our official launch in March at the NEA ESP Conference, [00:20:30] we've had about 21 states reach out, whether it's either information or they're getting started on creating a bill of rights, or they're actually already on their way. We've had a few states already contact us and tell us that they've passed a new business item or a new resolution at their state representative assembly or their delegate assembly, and they're starting.

It's really great because I've seen this happen in Massachusetts within the different towns and cities and locals, but to see it start spreading nationwide [00:21:00] is something really exciting for me, just because I can see the potential that a bill of rights or our RESPECT campaign has and be able to spread it out throughout the United States. I think it's so amazing and I'm so looking forward to the things that'll come from it. But again, we've had at least 21 states reach out and we've been in communication with them, giving information and trying to do our best to help offer whatever they need to be able to make this successful.

Natieka : Some of the [00:21:30] things that we talked about just now, in terms of pay, I guess in particular respect, all of that, actually does apply to what teachers talk about as being problems as well. A lot of teachers not making enough money or being respected for their jobs. So, why do we feel that ESPs need to have a separate bill of rights from teachers within the same school community?

Saúl : I'll start off one, by saying that [00:22:00] at least one of our states, Vermont, actually created an Educator Bill of Rights. So it's including certified teachers as well as education support professionals, which is great. But when it comes to an ESP Bill of Rights, most of the time when we talk about school employees, people always talk about teachers. And that's something we've been also working on to make sure people understand, that when it comes to members, when it comes to people that work in the schools, it's not always the teachers, and it's not to take away because teachers obviously have a hard job and they have so many [00:22:30] things they have to do, but we have to be really thoughtful when we talk about people who work in the schools and instead of teachers, say educators, because it's so important for representation.

So often our ESPs, they're not included in site-based decisions. They're left out of professional development or even acknowledged for their contributions. I can attest to where in my local, when we used to have our professional development day, we would go to school expecting to get professional development, and it would be something set aside for the teachers. [00:23:00] But then our ESPs were told, well, today you're going to do either a deep cleaning of the school, you're going to reorganize closets, you're going to make copies, and it just baffled us. And it was disrespectful to be honest, because this is supposed to be the time when we're supposed to get professional training so we can not just be successful as educators, but also make sure we're successful when it comes to our students. And not being able to receive that professional development, regardless of what it was, it was just simplest respect and a sign of like, you're [00:23:30] not valued. So those are some of the things.

And then while I think there are many issues that impact both ESPs and teachers, as well as other school employees like psychologists and counselors, I have to say that I do think it's important for ESPs to have their own bill of rights. We need to increase the visibility of their unique issues, their contributions, and uplift their voices. The ESP voice is, as I said earlier, sometimes are left behind or not as important, unfortunately [00:24:00] for districts or even sometimes our unions, but it's our time. We put in the hours, we put in the efforts, we're dedicated not just to our students, but to public education, and we deserve to be recognized for it.

Natieka : So let's talk about the top states that are doing this work and the kind of wins that we've already been seeing.

Saúl : I love this. Massachusetts, Maryland and Illinois are the top three states that have already had a campaign running for some years now. I'll just talk briefly [00:24:30] about Massachusetts and my experience, because it was just really phenomenal.

So the local that I was in, it's the largest pre-K through 12 local at the Massachusetts Teachers Association, which is our state union. We have close to, I want to say 3,500 members, probably 1,000 or so of them are education support professionals. So when we did our negotiations, usually we would start off like a month or so before or anything like that, but having this document, [00:25:00] having an ESP Bill of Rights, it just felt like we needed to have a fresh start and use it as an organizing tool before using it as a bargaining tool.

So we started probably a year, year and a half before negotiations started, and we used it as an organizing tool. We brought it to our members and said, here's the document we reached out to you for, have all the information, now we need you to read it, make sure you agree with it, and then share it. Not just share it with your other ESP members, but we need you to share [00:25:30] it with all educators, including our certified members, our teachers, administrators. And then after that, make sure you go out and share it with your friends, with your family, with the community, with elected officials. And that really helped people understand what our education support professionals were going through and what their need was.

One of the most interesting things was that when we spoke about all this and going forward with organizing and then into negotiations, is that we [00:26:00] used the Bill of Rights as our bargaining platform. So we first made sure that our local endorsed it, and then we also had our school committee endorse it. So our thought behind it was that one, if they say yes, we endorse it, we would be like, oh, this is great, and we're going to have a really good bargaining because you believe we deserve all this. And if they said no, it would be exposing them before the community and saying, you have dedicated educators and you don't believe that they should be making a living wage, they should have affordable healthcare [00:26:30] and all of the above. So we felt like it was a win-win for us, and it worked out that way.

We had probably what was one of the best contracts we've ever had. One of the things that we started doing was, usually for bargaining, we ask or tell our ESP members, you have to come testify before school committee. You have to do this. So when we approached it, I had this thought where it was, not everyone is comfortable at that level. So I think we need to start off with asking [00:27:00] people, what is your level of comfortableness when it comes to any actions? Some people said, yes, I'll testify before school committee. Some said, I'll help create letters, I'm good at writing. I'll help spread the word about sending emails or letters to school committee. I can help create actions. I can help be part of the contract action team. So we gave everyone the choice because I knew that at the moment when things would get difficult, everyone would realize, I've done my part where I'm comfortable, but now it's time to step it up because [00:27:30] this is the time. We're doing what we can, but it's not working so let's move on.

But when we were doing this, one of the things I did ask anyone who testified was, I need you to share what you make with the district. I need you to say it into the microphone. I need not just them to hear it, but we need the audience to hear it, we need the community and the elected officials to hear it, because most people don't know how little we make. And what I kept hearing over and over again was, I don't want to. I'm ashamed, [00:28:00] I'm ashamed of what I make, and that really stuck with me.

So the next time we went to testify at school committee, I stepped up to the microphone and I said, I want to give you all a number, and my number is 754 at the time. And they were like, what's that? I'm like, that's how much I make, $754. And everyone was like, oh, and I was like every two weeks. And you could hear the gasp behind me of people like, what? I was like, that's after taxes, that's after the health insurance, that's [00:28:30] after 11% for retirement after all that, that's what I make. And a lot of our members want to come up here and say that, but they're ashamed to do that. But you know what? We're actually learning that the shame is not ours, the shame is yours, because that's what you have decided our worth is. That's what you have decided how little we are to be paid for all that we do, not just for our students, but for public education in general.

And it just really took off where our ESP members started sharing their [00:29:00] numbers. They started sharing it with their colleagues, started sharing it with the teachers. And believe it or not, a lot of our teachers did not know how little our ESPs made. So that just sparked a really big conversation, and even one of our elected officials used it as part of her accepting speech when she got elected. She's like, one of the things I want to work on and that I'm ashamed to say I did not know is that our ESPs don't make a living wage and we need to fix that. So it became a priority, but it was just a really great win.

And the last thing [00:29:30] I'll say really quickly is that our education support professionals in Worcester were making around $32,000. That's top step, 20 plus years of service. After bargaining, we were able to bring that down to our entry level step. Any new hires will be starting at around $34,000 a year, and then the top step six. By the end of this contract, our paraeducators could be making up to $44,000 a year. So it was a huge jump and something significant, and it's just the beginning.

Natieka : [00:30:00] Speaking of Massachusetts, Senator Markey introduced a paraeducator and ESP Bill of Rights resolution in the Senate.

Saúl : Yes.

Natieka : And I wanted to talk about how that is different from our ESP Bill of Rights that we're pushing.

Saúl : Yes, so that was actually so great to hear when Senator Markey came out with that. We know it was inspired by what the Massachusetts Teachers Association ESPs did with our Bill of Rights. So it was great to see that [00:30:30] it was not just influencing our locals for bargaining and for organizing, but it was also impacting our elected officials. So completely and so grateful to Senator Markey for introducing this resolution. His resolution is designed to bring ESP policy issues to the forefront of federal education policies, and to ensure ESPs are included in these policies. So his resolution is intended to change the conversation at the federal level where NEA's Bill [00:31:00] of Right is a grassroots level type of movement.

Natieka : So, how can anyone who is listening right now and is really on board with this idea, how can they get involved and maybe even bring a bill of rights to their state?

Saúl : At NEA, we've been working on a lot of resources. We have a page dedicated to the bill of rights. So if you go to NEA.org/ESPbillofrights, it should take you to our main page where there are multiple resources. We have [00:31:30] the Bill of Rights documents, the one with the 10 buckets. We also just translated it into Spanish as well, so all the documents are also available in Spanish. We also have three webinar recordings that were done by Massachusetts, by Maryland and by Illinois. They're about an hour long, but they talk about what their process was to establishing an ESP Bill of Rights. So that's a good way and a good part to start, which is hearing those webinars, getting some information and some of the basics and how to start it.

One [00:32:00] of the things we want to tell our members is to first of all, have a conversation with your leadership. So if you're looking to have it at the local level or at the state level, make sure you're speaking with your leadership to make sure it's something that they are okay with happening. And then we have the resources, but they can also reach out to us directly. We do have an email, which is [email protected]. That email comes directly to myself or to our manager, Lisa Connor at ESPQ. [00:32:30] And one of us will write back and whatever the request is, whether it's information or if they want to meet virtually, we can do that as well, to discuss their thoughts are, what the possibilities are and what resources and what other things we can offer.

But to me it's like, speak with your leadership, speak with your members. If you're thinking of a local level, speak to local leaders. Same thing on the national level, but it's something that doesn't happen overnight. I want members to understand that. It really takes time to [00:33:00] have those one-on-one conversations with our members, for them to understand where it's coming from. And the most important part again, is that this should be something created by ESPs for ESPs. And it's so important to have their voice as part of this because it doesn't belong to anyone, it's something that's for our ESP members. And that's to me, the most important part of it.

Natieka : And last up, I just wanted to ask, I think I have an idea, but what are you most excited about [00:33:30] right now, in terms of all of this?

Saúl : I think seeing all the successes that are going to come from this. I mean, if it happens in Massachusetts where we have certain things happening, certain regulations and everything else, but then seeing the difference that it made in my local, where we've always, in a way, weren't really feeling positive about the outcome of negotiations because it's usually the same thing over and over again. But to be able to have this campaign and see what it did, not just in my local in [00:34:00] Worcester, but in other locals throughout Massachusetts and what it's done in Maryland and see what it's done in Illinois, I think I'm really excited to see what it'll do for our ESPs nationwide. And even though our slogan is, one job should be enough, I really feel like our slogan's going to at some point change to, one job is enough, because I feel like this is a game changer and this is going to make a difference in the lives of our ESP members. And I'm really, really excited to see where it goes.

Natieka : Thank you so much, Saúl, [00:34:30] for coming on today and helping us learn all about the Bill of Rights.

Saúl : My pleasure, and again, thank you for inviting me, and I'm here for whatever our members need. Thank you.

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